Ep #82: (Part 1) The Power of Questioning with Maggie Reyes

Maggie: We plan to win, right, that is what we do. We go to the Olympics with the intention of winning. We don’t go to the Olympics to just go on a trip, right?

Leah: Right.

Maggie: And when you’re creating art, you’re creating art to change the way the world sees something, whatever your vision is that adds to the world. And for me when I’m thinking about marriage, it’s just like I want to have a world where people are well loved. And I have this whole other soapbox thing about it that a well-loved person does not go to war. A well-loved person is not violent.

A well-loved – like the way we can change the world, from my creativity, like the way I creatively contribute is that I think the better we know how to love we make the world more peaceful, with every relationship that works better. So I am playing to win, I’m Olympic gold medal level playing. So that’s what we have in common among many mother things.

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That was a clip from my recent conversation with Maggie Reyes. Maggie Reyes is a life coach and modern marriage mentor who specializes in helping driven, ambitious women create the marriages of their dreams. Maggie is also a dear friend and esteemed colleague of mine. And I don’t think any of my audience will have any trouble making a leap from creativity and thriving artist to why I would invite a leading expert in marriage and relationships to the show. And if any of you still have that question hanging, Maggie is sure to answer them all and soundly.

So this episode is a true masterclass, Maggie brings it five star all the way. I’m so excited to share this with you, listen in and enjoy.

You are listening to The Art School Podcast; a show for artists and creatives who want to become the next greatest version of themselves. Learn how to cultivate an extraordinary way of being and take the mystery out of making money, and the struggle out of making art. Here is your host, master certified life coach, artist, and former lawyer, Leah Badertscher.

Welcome back, everyone. And how are you doing? What’s lighting you up these days? What’s around the corner for you? I just recently went for a walk around our farm and I might have mentioned we have these 40 acres in Southwest Michigan. And Michigan is just beautiful, I love living here.

And anyway, I was walking through the prairie, the trail that we have made through that and it was one of the first really summery days we’ve had. And something about the heat on my shoulders, the smell in the air of the wildflowers, you could smell a rain coming too, there is a storm approaching. It like opened this time portal and all of a sudden, I had this wash of nostalgia, like I felt like I did in somewhere in a high school, like 16, 17, that feeling of, gosh, the world’s your oyster, and there are so many possibilities.

And there’s always something that feels alive and fresh, and you feel so alive and fresh, and high school wasn’t always a fun time for me. But there were aspects for sure of those days that felt like that to me. And then there were years after that where I didn’t feel like that.

And I had this, again, it felt like just that warm breeze opened up a time portal for me, and I had a full circle moment where I’m like, you know what, I am back there again, but better than ever. Because now not only do I feel again, like I really can create what I want. The world really is my oyster, there really are so many amazing things around the corner, and right now, right here in my life. It’s so – just it’s good to be here now. And at this time too, what’s different from then was I have been through obstacles.

And before when I thought, when challenges come up in life when you’re 17, you’re like, yeah, I’ll handle it. And that’s in theory, then to be on the other side. And to be on the other side of things where you’re like yeah, I don’t really so much want to go through that, just give me the steady, linear gently rising line to everything I want. And life isn’t really like that, it’s a lot more messy, a spoiler alert for any young people listening. And that’s also the beautiful part.

And what I came around to then too, was what has served me, and where I have come full circle, and this is my segue into Maggie’s interview, is that you can have an amazing life. You can have a five-star life. You can have five-star experiences. You can be uncompromising. You can take your power back. And the thing is it’s better than it is at 17 when you really don’t know what stepping into your power is. You can feel possibility, but right now, to have again, possibility and step into your power, that’s what’s available to you.

And I love how Maggie has phrased, you’ll hear her talk about how so many of us don’t even know what we can want because we don’t know what’s possible. So what I want to do with my work is paint a very clear picture for you of what is possible. And for you to know that it’s not pie in the sky, that it’s not just for a unicorn or a special snowflake, it is for you, it is for you, for you to decide, I am not confused.

Someone is going to do this, I can do it, I can claim it, I can cultivate that way of being, that mindset, that emotional mastery. I can cultivate the skills it takes, the growth mindset, to make those results inevitable, it is yours to claim. And another thing Maggie just brings up in this episode that I love is that also what if it’s closer than you think? What if it’s easier than you think? So open your mind and your heart to that. The other place where Maggie and I align so much is the big vision that we have for the world that comes back to the individual.

And you’ve heard her say, her vision for a world well loved, oh my God, yes. And that’s, again, her work is in marriage, my work is with you unleashing your potential. And I know in order to do that you have to be in a place where you know what it is to love well. And it’s okay if you start off at liking, or even being willing to look at the places where you aren’t liking and then move up.

So wherever you are, she talks about the five-star marriage, to not be discouraged if currently a relationship, your relationship to yourself, your relationship to work or your money, maybe it feels like that motel scratchy sheets two star. But to know that is – what is absolutely available to you, it’s yours there to create it and to claim it is five star; it’s such a beautiful thing. And it’s not selfish, it changes the world. So here that then brings me to Maggie’s official bio.

Maggie Reyes is a life coach and modern marriage mentor, who specializes in helping driven, ambitious women create the marriages of their dreams. Her innovative, playful, and practical approach to love and marriage takes the principles of cognitive psychology and luxury hospitality service, and uses them to teach her clients the most effective ways to break destructive patterns and develop the mindsets and habits that make relationships thrive.

If you want to learn how to stop doing the things that poison the love in a relationship and start doing the things that make love stronger. You can find the tools to start becoming your best loving yourself at maggiereyes.com. Maggie truly is an extraordinary, extraordinary coach. I have seen her in action, I follow her work. I use her work in my own life. She is brilliant, and for everything that she shares in this episode, I know it scratches the surface of what she is able to offer.

So if you are in any kind of relationship I highly recommend following her, it’s not only a step towards your five-star life. But it’s a step towards you participating in this vision of a world well loved. I hope you enjoy, I know you will, this conversation with Maggie Reyes.

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Maggie: So many of us don’t even know what to want, because we don’t have role models of what a five-star marriage is like. So let me give you a vision of what you could have, it could be this way. And it could be more towards this way than towards the other way and any way you follow, it’s still better, yeah.

Leah: Yeah, I love that. I love that. And also, in your work when you talk about how like powerful women, like to have a powerful marriage behind you.

Maggie: Yes. Yes.

Leah: And I think that could be for men, too, to be a powerful creator, to have a powerful partnership behind you.

Maggie: Yeah. Yeah, sometimes we abdicate our power, and that’s – and we are so powerful, maybe in our creative vision would be uncompromising. But then we don’t apply that same thing to other areas of our life, and then sometimes we just want to question it.

Leah: Oh boy, good place to start; let’s start right there. Well, welcome, Maggie Reyes.

Maggie: Okay. Are we recording? I didn’t know. Hello, everyone.

Leah: Maggie and I were just getting warmed up and then I felt like, oh, we hit it, we hit the stride right there. And the way I love to do these podcasts is like an organic conversation, and like between two friends. And today it’s not just like it is between two friends and two colleagues. And I have so much respect for Maggie and her work and we have been in this realm together of coaching for how many years?

Maggie: Well, I had certified in 2012, and I remember meeting you at the very first mastermind for the Life Coach School where we both trained. I remember you looked stunningly beautiful as you always do, and you had fabulous earrings and a beautiful dress. And was like, of course, she’s this creative woman who dresses so creatively and so beautifully, I still remember that.

Leah: I remember meeting you there too, because you have an energy that is like the sun, rolls off you in ebullience. And so we have been almost from the beginning together, because I think I got certified in 2011.

Maggie: Yeah, so I went in the class right after you. And I have to tell everyone who’s listening because they don’t see my office, but I literally have Leah’s work all over my office. So I have one of her beautiful prints from Society6. Are you still at Society6?

Leah: Not so much.

Maggie: Not anymore, so I got lucky, you guys, because I was able to get one of her prints that was like sold out the minute she painted it. And then I have this other beautiful smaller…

Leah: I remember doing those.

Maggie: I have one it’s called We Are In Love. And of course, I’m a marriage coach, so We Are in Love spoke to the soul of my heart. And I just – I have to tell you this story, this is the power of art. Three years ago, a hurricane was going to hit Miami and I didn’t know if my house was going to be standing when I left. And I went through that moment that I hope no one ever has to go through of what would I take if I was never coming back to this place.

And one of Leah’s paintings, they’re a pair, so both of them were in my – I’m getting emotional just saying this, sorry. I was like both of them, like if I have this wherever I start over it will feel like home. And then we started with a good cry.

Leah: My gosh, Maggie.

Maggie: Yeah.

Leah: Oh, my goodness, well, I’m – I always talk to people about then how they can still create and they don’t need to pull it together, because right now I will not be pulling it together and we can still flow. Thank you for that. Thank you for that, oh my gosh.

Maggie: I think that I was looking at your podcasts and I was listening to your Victory episode right before sort of getting ready to talk to you. And I just thought, the people who listen to your podcast need to know, some of them are really accomplished artists, and they know the impact of their work. But some of you, your work hasn’t had the impact that you want it to have quite yet.

And I just want you to never underestimate the power of creating art, because that gave me so much comfort and such a feeling of like we’ll be okay, that I’m crying about it. It’s three years later, no one is in danger, my house was still standing. Everything went well, but that moment when I had to decide what can I take with me that would still feel like home, and a piece of art gave me so much comfort. So all of you creators, you keep creating is what I’m saying.

Leah: Well, yes, amen to that. And I think that’s something that bears repeating right now too. And I also just want to – I will have obviously introduced you, done your formal bio before this. And then we’ll put that together, because I kind of want to – I want for us to be able to dive in. I think there are so many intersections of your work and my work. And so I’m not a marriage coach, and yet, you know as a coach all things lead to Rome back to the person, right, the relationship we have with us all.

Maggie: Yes.

Leah: And one of the things that I’ve heard you speak about, and this is a place that I think I’ll actually include it, can you continue talking about this, not idea, but this way of living, where a powerful woman or a powerful man, a powerful creator. What that can mean to have a powerful partnership behind you if you are in a relationship or partnership?

Maggie: Absolutely, so I know Leah has a wide variety of listeners, I work primarily with women, but this really applies to everyone. And I work with type A, really focused people and that are very powerful in a lot of different areas of your life. And what I see sometimes is we abdicate our power in our relationships.

So I was thinking about, if you have a vision – if you’re a creator, you’re writing a song or you’re making a painting or a sculpture, whatever your creativity is. And you are uncompromising in the quality that you want to have and the vision that you have for that thing.

And it’s like we forget, it’s like we get amnesia and then we go into our personal life and some person in our life says something, and we agree even when we disagree. Or we let that knock us off our center, which we would never do at work or in our creativity or in our other roles that we’re in, but we let it happen in relationships.

And what I like to remind people is that a powerful woman or a powerful man owns their power in their relationship too, in the way that it can be loving, and kind, and encouraging, and beautiful. And whenever we feel stuck in a relationship, or whenever we feel just that feeling that you get when something’s not quite right. If you’re making a painting and you have that feeling where it’s just not quite right, or you’re writing a song, a little verse, something’s missing. That happens in our relationships too, we have that not quite right feeling.

What I would invite every single person listening to us to do is to just question is there any place where I am giving up my power, where I am abdicating. And is there any place where I can take my power back? And I would bet you that you will find that place when you have that feeling.

Leah: So what I’m hearing you say is that not quite right feeling, if we just kind of then – if we sense that’s in our relationship but we’re like, whatever, it’s not such a big deal, or I really can’t sit down to deal with it. Or maybe we don’t look there because we deep down are afraid that we can’t do something about it, or we’re afraid to look at it because it might be something that… What if it brings up something to the surface and we can’t resolve?

Maggie: Correct.

Leah: And so what your message is you don’t have to settle, but you can turn and create a solution there.

Maggie: Absolutely, and in addition to that, my message is you already know how. Every single creator, every single artist listening to us right now has had the thing they’ve been working on. So I’m a writer, so I have had that thing where I’ve been working on something like, I should have added another example, this wasn’t clear, I went too long about this other thing.

We’ve all had those moments when it was not quite right and then we looked at it and then we said, “This is what I’m going to try. Yeah, that feels right now. This is what I’m going to try. That still doesn’t feel correct. I’m going to tweak this other thing.” We all have that skill as creative people, and I’m inviting you to turn that skill towards your relationship and allow yourself to see what happens.

Leah: So what do you think are the reasons we don’t turn and spend time with what’s not quite right? What do you think are the reasons we don’t address those things?

Maggie: I think what you said earlier is absolutely on point, we’re afraid. I think we could probably list 20 different reasons and it will all be a different flavor of fear, probably. We think we don’t know how, or if I do address it, well, I don’t know where to go from here, so why would I even address it? I’m just going to leave it alone. So it’s either fear, and even not knowing how, is the fear that I’m not going to figure out how. But we do think, I wouldn’t know what to do so I’m just going to let it be.

And then I think the effort that we take to trust ourselves as creative people, it’s literally the same effort we have to take to trust ourselves to create relationships that are as vibrant and thriving as our art.

Leah: It’s powerful. The other part I’m like, okay, I love where this is going because the other part I’m seeing too is that to be a thriving artist, part of my work, the heart and soul of my work is creating a paradigm, a possibility of thriving artists. Because we have been all too familiar, [inaudible] starving, tortured, struggling artists. But I’m like that was created by a set of beliefs. Now let’s create this new reality. But we have to have a vision of that, so we have to have an inner sense that, well, that’s possible.

And so is that something then – is that the work you do with your clients, you’re painting a vision of what’s possible?

Maggie: Absolutely, it’s basically the same, you do it through art. I do it through marriage and relationship, but just similarly, as we have been sold that bill of goods, that in order to create something amazing I must be going through the worst chapter of my life. That’s a lie, let’s be clear. I’m repeating it to point out that it’s a lie.

Leah: Right, yeah, bad one.

Maggie: Bad one, it’s like what if I could be massively creative and deeply in love and feel amazing, wouldn’t that be awesome? And then marriage, there’s this, the ball and chain, there is all of this sort of popular culture idea of the fact that it’s limiting and difficult, and so many different, the same as with artists. It’s inherently bad in some way. And my view, again, is like you painting a picture.

So I used to work in luxury hospitality, and that deeply inspired me to think about, we have five-star hotels, we have five-star experiences. What if we had a five-star marriage, what would that be like? And it’s not that you’re going to go directly to that, although some people do. But it’s just entertaining the idea that you could have one and these are the elements that would go in it, allows you to move in a direction you may have never considered before, which is what art does for us. It opens our mind to a new possibility.

Leah: So let’s paint that picture, I would love to hear you talk about what are the elements of a five-star marriage?

Maggie: Absolutely. So here’s what I did, I looked at what hotels like the Ritz-Carlton and the St. Regis, I looked at what they did, their actual practices. They said, “Well, let’s be the version at home of that.” So one of the things that they do for example is they look at things like – they have a database on their customers. And so if I went and stayed at a Ritz-Carlton, they would know that I like Kit-Kats and that Leah likes lemonade or whatever it may be. And when we come back to the hotel they’d be like, “Welcome back, here is a Kit-Kat for you, we’re so happy you’re here.”

And so I call it maintaining your love database, it’s connecting with our partners, because our partners, artists especially know this, we grow and change over time. And what we deeply loved five years ago and what deeply inspired us then isn’t necessarily what deeply inspired us now. And so what happens in a lot of long-term relationships is we forget that we need to keep building that database and keep learning as we grow and evolve together. What matters to you now, what are you inspired by today, what’s going on?

So that’s an example of something that I should have took the idea from where they literally actually do, and then I said, “What is the marriage version of that?”

Leah: I love that.

Maggie: And then there’s other things we think about, every hotel has what they call a defect resolution system. And I call that asking the right questions. So, many of us get tripped up in our relationships because we focus on solving the wrong problems. And you and I both learned in our coach training, this is a really fun thing is how do you get to the root cause of something? How do you figure out which is the right problem we need to be solving? You need to ask questions.

And so we as coaches ask things like, “Well, tell me why? And why do you think this way? And why do you feel that way?” And we’ll ask why multiple times over until we get to the root cause. So I was in coach training learning about asking why, and I was reading a book about the Ritz-Carlton and their service standards and all these things. And this is literally the same process that they use to learn how to solve the right problem, and I was fascinated that it was so similar, absolutely fascinated.

So I’ll give you the brief story that was in the book just so you guys can visualize this. So there was a hotel where everybody was complaining about the elevators, they would order the elevator, the elevator wouldn’t come and it was a problem. And they said, “Well, why are the elevators busy?” And it turned out that the housekeeping department kept asking for elevators. And they were like, “Well, why?”

So notice I’m two or three whys in already, why is the housekeeping asking for these elevators? They need linens, they need towels. They’re going from floor to floor quicker. Why are they doing this? Four whys in, it turns out until we ask fifth, five whys in, we don’t understand and realize that the reason this is happening is because the hotel was at a 100% capacity and only had enough towels for 80% capacity. So they were scrounging all over every floor to get the towels to be able to put them in all the rooms.

But until we understand that that’s the issue and say, “We just need to get more towels in the building,” we’re not solving the right problem.

Leah: Right, and also in that example, putting in a whole new elevator shaft, renovating, is so much more costly than just getting some more towels.

Maggie: Exactly, yeah, which is so important, we sometimes as humans spend a lot of time and a lot of money trying to solve for the wrong problem. It’s like MFAs, if I’m in the right program with the right labels, at the right time, that’ll help me write my book. As opposed to maybe I need to work with Leah, and work on my mindset and know that I could write a book no matter what’s going on in the world. And it’s like we’re solving for the wrong problem and we need to be able to take a step back and think, wait, am I solving for the right problem?

Leah: I love that and I love the creativity, the why process, yields and facilitates. And I love the efficiency and the pragmatism of it too, because if we get to like the MFA example, why would you then prolong writing your book? Why do you think you need an MFA to write your book? Because you probably will still be in that same mindset with an MFA, but just – this is not to disparage MFAs but just to say to ask yourself why.

And do you have any examples from your work, like specific – I mean obviously now breaching any confidentiality, but where the process – are there themes for why it comes up and it’s been useful for your clients?

Maggie: So I have a fun one that someone just – so I did a podcast of just explaining this whole thing with the five whys. And someone reached out to me who isn’t a client of mine, she just heard the episode and said, “Listen, I just did that five whys thing with my husband, we were about to have a fight and I just very calmly kept on asking why. And we didn’t have the fight; we were able to solve the problem.”

And so she wrote to me to tell me, “Thank you so much for explaining this.” And then she said, “And I need to tell you this, Maggie, my husband just came to me and said, “Did you do voodoo on me? What did you do?””

Leah: Because it can feel like magic, coaching can feel like magic.

Maggie: We probably – I am sure I talk about that and you talk about that. It feels like magic sometimes, it’s actually psychology, it’s okay.

Leah: Right, and it’s actually like what it feels like when you – I mean when you’re fascinated with how your psychology works. And it’s like we talk about how there’s no orange manual for being human. But really there are these practices you can use to learn more about how your mind works, it is so empowering. It will empower you in your creativity and it will empower you in your relationships.

Maggie: Yes, absolutely, yes.

Leah: And you also are a queen of awesome questions, there’s some things that I know about you, and this is just one more example of that. You have a very exciting creative baby.

Maggie: Yes. So I have written my very first book and I’m so excited to share it with the world, it’s called, The Questions for Couples Journal. And it’s such a great story about the book itself, because I love questions, I always ask questions. I talk about questions with my clients all the time. I have a podcast episode that’s just on power questions because I just think questions are so powerful. And my husband and I, since we were dating, before we even got married, we loved questions books and asked each other questions and we’d go on road trips all the time.

So when the publisher approached me and said, “Would you like to write a questions book?” I was like, “Yes. Yes, I would.”

Leah: Perfect fit.

Maggie: Yeah, perfect fit. And what I love about it is that questions bring us closer, yeah. Questions brings us closer to ourselves, to our inner selves, to our inner desires to who we are, and questions bring us closer to each other.

Leah: Maggie, that is beautiful. In art school I talk about period pause, I just want a period pause. Questions bring us closer to ourselves, our inner selves and to each other.

Maggie: Yes, I get all nerded out about stuff like that.

Leah: Yeah, me too. And like I nerd out, and it’s also this energy of it works, like it works, it is truly an empowering process. Well, so I’m going to switch gears just a little bit and rearrange how I normally do these episodes. Because usually when I do interviews, then at the end I do a Coach with Me because I want people to take the information and not just consume it, to implement it. Okay, and you’re a coach too, so we can do Coach with Me together in the middle of this episode today.

Because I would – would you mind sharing a couple of your favorite power questions that help – will help the listeners come into a closer relationship with themselves and with their loved one?

Maggie: I absolutely would love to. Just guide me through the Coach with Me, I’ll start with this and then you just guide me through the process. So probably one of your favorite questions, one of my favorite questions is very simply what am I making this mean? So a thing happens in our life and sometimes we feel bad about it and we just want to check-in, what am I making this mean?

The way I use it in my individual marriage coaching is I invite my clients to ask their partners, “What did you mean by that”, in a very simple way. Because sometimes we make up these whacky stories about what our partners mean. And we can just nip it all in the bud if we just say, “What did you mean by that? Before I make up a story about what you meant, let me understand, what was your thought process?” So that’s a question that I like to use both on myself and I also like to use it to understand what someone else is trying to communicate. So that’s one.

Leah: That’s a beautiful one too. And that for sure, I have used that in my own relationships and because what you and I both know, so much of what we’re making what someone else says, we often – it’s not about what they said or what they thought. It’s about what we think about ourselves. And what I realize sometimes is because I had this overlay of guilt, that it didn’t matter what someone else said, I had to only accept it through this filter of guilt, like I must have done something wrong, “He means I did something wrong.”

So therefore, I could only take things in as a criticism or a judgment when if I ask the question, “What do you mean?”

Maggie: Yes, then you can really listen and be present with the other person. And of course, then that allows a space for you to be closer instead of further away.

Leah: Yes, yes.

Maggie: Yeah. Okay, the second one, one of my favorites, I literally have it on my whiteboard, and I have a confession to make, my name is Maggie Reyes, and I’m an over-complicator, if I can do something in 47 steps instead of three…

Leah: I hear you, sister.

Maggie: My natural inclination is to do the 47 steps instead of three. So, on my whiteboard I have the question, how can I make this easier?

Leah: Yeah, literally on my bulletin board.

Maggie: Yes, okay, so we have this in common. And I remind my clients of this all the time too, because when you have – and all of our listeners, they have an artistic creative life, they have – whether they’re making money from their art and then that’s an intense experience to be an artist who makes money. Or whether they’re working on their art and making money in other ways, and then have family and then have friends, and then have all the different things that we fill our lives with.

How can I make this easier will just allow you to have more space in your life for the things that matter more.

Leah: Yeah, what a gift that is.

Maggie: Yes, yes. So everyone, when you’re looking at your week, how can I make this easier? Try it.

Leah: Yeah, and I think also it’s similar to something we talked about just five minutes ago, where you lay out the path of possibility, that there is one that’s a way of ease and maybe grace that’s available. All of a sudden when you ask yourself that question it creates the neural circuitry in our mind that is that possible? Like maybe a difficult situation or conversation, or something that usually ends up in a fight, it doesn’t have to be. What would it look like if instead this were easy?

Maggie: Yes, or easier. Sometimes – I know this happens with your clients and your listeners, you tell me I have, because I have these like super type A, super hardworking, like the list makers. I am that person who writes something on their list when I just did it just to cross it off, I am that person. And when you’re that type of person as I am, and many of my clients and community are, we tend to go very black and very white. How can I make it easy? And if it’s not easy it’s a disaster.

But, no, how can I make it easier? How can I just remove one step? How can I take 10 minutes off of it, that little nuance.

Leah: Yes, that little nuance is some Mind Ninja coaching right there for the binary thinkers, right?

Maggie: Yes.

Leah: Because it’s totally right, if we say how can I make this easy, and if it’s not easy then they’re like, “No, that don’t work.”

Maggie: Right, exactly.

Leah: [inaudible], already, that’s great.

Maggie: Thank you.

Leah: Yeah, that’s so great. And I also know too like that path works, I think because it’s worked for me and it’s worked and it’s worked for me, not that it’s been easy, but how can I make this simple, how can I not complicate this, make more money. And I think too to have that marvelous – even when I ask myself that question and I consider my relationships, it already creates a sense of levity.

Maggie: Yes, yes, yes.

Leah: And which is such a subtle but profound shift when someone is bringing something to you that they care deeply about, like the relationship. And they’re like, “Oh gosh, this is going to be so hard.”

Maggie: Right, yes. And what I say to them is, “What if it isn’t? What if it’s easier than you think it is?” And what I talk a lot in my languaging is, “What if we’re just making a tweak, what if we’re just doing one little tweak on this?” And one tweak at a time we can get there. We think we have to climb this huge mountain, and not only do we have to climb it, but we have to climb it in one day and we have to climb it right now. As opposed to one foot in front of the other is how you climb any mountain, let’s just climb one foot.

Leah: So then I’m really curious then too because I just see such a need for your work. And then also a place where not only need, but it goes beyond into what if it were just a belief we all had that like working on our marriage was something that just makes us all healthier. You don’t have to have a problem to have a marriage coach?

Maggie: For sure, absolutely. And I love that you said, what if we just had the belief that working on our marriage was just better. But let me offer you some facts. We don’t even need the belief. Here is what research has shown us. Healthy, thriving marriages throughout the course of our lives help us earn more money throughout the course of our entire life. Help us be healthier, and live longer. There’s all this very interesting research around that when you have a healthy relationship at home it impacts every area of your life in a positive way.

Now, the same is true in the opposite, a toxic relationship, stresses our system, and there’s so much research on what stress does to us. But one of the more interesting pieces of research that I read was that a toxic relationship has the same effect on your body as smoking – as smoking. Because the stress that you’re under, and imagine if you came home to a fight every night, if you came home to being upset every time. The amount of stress over months, and days and years is so high.

So one of my sort of soapbox things is by all means, if you’re going to be married, make it awesome because there’s no downside. And whatever you need to do, the resourcefulness that you need to engage in to find how you can make it easier, there’s no better use of your time.

Leah: Wow, okay, that’s also profound. And so what do you – because I know you have also had clients or cases where people may have felt like this is a last-ditch effort.

Maggie: Yes, I have definitely had that, yes.

Leah: So can you maybe speak to, to my listeners who are like, I don’t even think there’s any hope for me, like there isn’t a glimmer, like they’re in a place where they just don’t want to give up.

Maggie: I got you, okay. Listen, everyone, listen up, mean it, okay. So I have had that situation, where someone comes to me and they’re like, “I need to decide if I want to stay or I want to go. And I’m pretty much like I’m going.” And I want to be super, super clear, it is my belief, I’m the biggest marriage advocate on Earth. And it is my belief that sometimes the highest and best outcome for a relationship is for it to end, that is an absolutely honorable choice, as good as any other choice.

Here is the distinction I want all of you to leave with, okay. It is very, very different to leave a marriage from a place of grounded, centered love for yourself and for the other person, than to leave a marriage from a place of anger, and resentment, and disappointment for yourself or for the other person.

So when someone comes to me and they’re like, “I’m not sure.” I’m like, “Okay, here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to look at your relationship, whatever form it takes, we’re going to look at what do you need to forgive? Where do you need to set a boundary? What do you need to do that is loving towards yourself? How can you be kind to the other person, even if they don’t deserve it?”

Maybe they really are a jerk, we don’t know, “But for who you want to be in the world, how do we get you to the place where your maximum self-expression,” to think about Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Your maximum self-expression is your most, best loving self. And from that place you can decide, do I want this person in my life or not? And you part with love, if we part. Or very oftentimes we end up not parting.

But honestly, I’ve had situations where I’ve had beautiful endings, and I’ve had situations where I’ve had beautiful new beginnings. And I just want to make that clear that both choices are beautiful and honorable, it’s where you’re making the choice from that matters.

Leah: Whether you’re making the choice from a place of love, which also sounds like empowered, an empowered choice, because anger, resentment are not empowering.

Maggie: Correct, yes.

Leah: Okay. So then what do you think if people – if someone says to you, “I’m just not sure if this is the one,” what are your thoughts on the one?

Maggie: That is so fascinating to me. There are some things where I have like blanket sort of this is the best way to go about doing it. And there are some things where I think that context and nuance really matter. And I’ve talked to a lot of people who have gotten married for a lot of reasons, and some people have gotten married for reasons, that the decision itself to get married was a little iffy, was a little questionable when that decision was made.

So we would really have to look into – my overall view is this person’s in your life for a reason. Most people don’t get married by accident, they may get married sometimes for great reasons, or for not so great reasons, but usually it wasn’t like I woke up this morning and I accidentally stepped into the courthouse.

Leah: Yeah, there is some premeditation.

Maggie: There’s some thought in it. And so my thing, my sort of overall view is this person that’s in your life is a great teacher, let’s learn the lesson, let’s find out whether they’re the one or they’re not the one. They’re the one you’re with right now, let’s figure out why. Let’s see what’s there, and then depending, we may find that it wasn’t the best match or we may find that there’s so much more in common than we thought we had, we just weren’t looking for it.

Now, if you tell me, do you believe in the one? I would have to say I believe I married to the most perfect partner I could possibly have. We have the quirkiest things in common, it’s so crazy. But do I think you need to believe in the one to enjoy your marriage and be happy and be delighted? No. It’s kind of two opposites, it’s holding two opposites. It’s like if that belief serves you, that there is one “one,” go for it. And if you find that belief to be a little quirky, let it go.

Leah: Right. Well, because what it sounds like for your marriage in particular, you have a lot of beliefs that serve you both well.

Maggie: Yes. Yes.

Leah: So it’s helping people find outlets, like what beliefs are serving them and supporting the relationship?

Maggie: Yes, yes.

Leah: Yeah, and I hear you on that, that there’s the context is important and that there’s nuance. Because I know that in the work I do, a belief that serves one person is not the belief that’s going to serve the next person.

Maggie: Exactly, yes, yes.

Leah: Yeah. So another area that I think is so fascinating, where our work overlaps is I talk and teach a lot about an Olympic caliber mindset, psychology, this extraordinary way of being. On par if you were gunning for a gold in the Olympics, as whatever your creative dream is, to allow yourself, that is a possibility, that you can cultivate this extraordinary way of being in mind, body and spirit.

And then I saw recently you too were talking about Olympic caliber gold medal coaching for marriage, which I just, again, geeked out about and get so excited about. So can you share that?

Maggie: I would to share that story. So here’s what happened, you guys, behind the scenes. I was coaching a client on an issue she was having in her marriage. And we were just having a very regular run of the mill everyday coaching call where she was upset about something. And I was asking her, “Well, what is the result she wanted to create and what could get in the way and how can we solve for that obstacle of whatever is getting in the way?” And we did a whole exercise on it, we came up with three or four things that she could do.

And afterwards when we finished doing that she said, “I have to tell you something.” She said, “I just heard a podcast, they were interviewing Michael Phelps, who’s this Olympian swimmer who’s won multiple gold medals.” And she said, “This thing that you just did with me, just through this little thing with me and my husband, that isn’t even a really huge, it’s not like a marriage breaker.” It was just something she needed to deal with, so it didn’t pile up.

So she said, “This thing we just did,” she said, “Michael Phelps and his coach asked him, “What could go wrong, what could get in the way between you and winning your gold medal.”” And made him think about what are all the obstacles that could come up. And Michael did, and it’s a very famous story now where his goggles could come off. So my client’s telling me the story, just to share the story.

I was like, “Tell me more.” So she said, “His goggles could come off so he had to calculate what would he do? He had to anticipate the obstacle of what he would do if his goggles came off. And he said, “Well, he’d have to count the laps, he’d have to count how many strokes it took from wall to wall, so that he could know where he was at any given moment in the pool, if he could not visually confirm where he was in the pool.””

And so in true heroic fashion, his goggles did come off and he had to count his laps and he still won a medal even when that happened. So she was telling me the story, and when I finished the call and I started thinking about it, I was like, we plan to win. That is what we do, we go to the Olympics with the intention of winning. We don’t go to the Olympics to just go on a trip.

And when you’re creating art, you’re creating art to change the way the world sees something, whatever your vision is that adds to the world. And for me, when I’m thinking about marriage, it’s just like I want to have a world where people are well loved.

And I have this whole other soapbox thing about it that a well-loved person does not go to war. A well-loved person is not violent. A well-loved – like the way we can change the world from my creativity, the way I creatively contribute is that I think the better we know how to love we make the world more peaceful with every relationship that works better. So I am playing to win, I am Olympic gold medal level playing. So that’s what we have in common among many other things.

Leah: Yeah, a world we’re loved.

Maggie: Yes, yes.

—

Isn’t Maggie something? I have been so excited to release this episode. I talk a lot in my coaching with people about relationships, even though I am not a marriage coach. But I know that when I’m talking with clients and I’m looking for what I call the master keys, like what are the places that if we solve for this, if we’re solving the right problem, it’s going to unlock so many doors in a highly effective way. That we don’t need to go around finding every little pass code, every little key, but we have that master code, that master key.

And over and over again, I do see relationships being one of those master keys, I see a way that someone who thrives creatively can then abdicate their power in a relationship, and it is a drag and a drain on their creative career. And it doesn’t have to stay that way. And it can do the same to your finances, but again, it doesn’t have to be that way. You don’t – at any point you can take your power back.

And I’m so grateful to Maggie for sharing this work. And hopefully you’ll listen to this many times and take many notes, I know I will. And she will be back next week to drop even more truth bombs and just life forming, love forming wisdom. So she and I already did the Coach with Me segment.

I just want to remind you of a couple of those master questions. What do I make that mean? And what if it’s easier than I think it is? How can I make this easy? How can I make this easier, if you’re one of those binary people?

Thank you for listening to another episode of The Art School Podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, if it’s helped you move the needle in your life, the best thing you can do to pay it forward is to share it. Subscribe and go to iTunes and leave a review. I am so grateful for each and every one of you that takes the time to leave a review. It helps me know that you’re listening; this is landing and resonating with you. And it also helps me reach more people. And when you’re ready to take this work deeper there are three amazing options for doing that right now.

One, the summer workshop series kicks off June 9^th. The only way to enroll in the summer workshop series, you can find all the details about it on my website, www.leahcb.com. The only way to enroll is to be a member of either the Art School class in the fall or the mastermind. So, applications are open for the mastermind, we already have an amazing class shaping up. These, the applications move me to tears, our outstanding and extraordinary core groups of founders has already coalesced. So we’ve already got momentum there.

And the mastermind is also going to have the benefit of its own – they’ll have access to the summer workshop series and also their own additional two calls a month with me for the summer workshop series, to tide them over until we kickoff the official mastermind in August.

The other way you can opt in to the summer workshop series, and make the most of this energy of possibility in creativity in the summertime, and also do it in a way where you take your life back.

I have amazing summer plans with my family this summer, and it is because I do the work that I’m going to be teaching in the summer. I don’t plan for a dip in income. In fact, my projection is to actually increase my income this summer. But I also have built in a very sane, sustainable, healthy, fun work life personal balance schedule. And this is also still amidst of all of my kids’ camps being cancelled, amidst a pandemic and my husband’s job is still on, and he is expected to show up for that. So this work really works, it makes life work, it’s very pragmatic.

So if you want to have not only the best summer ever, but also set yourself up for the next year, the next two years, we’re really going to start and get momentum rolling in the summer workshop series. It’s going to be high impact and so much fun, so I hope you will join in there.

Again, to learn more about how to enroll you can go to www.leahcb.com. There you can either enroll in the Art School for the fall, which will automatically enroll you in the summer workshop series at no additional cost. It ordinarily would be at $1200 for just the summer workshop series, but it’s included in the cost of Art School fall.

Or you can apply to join the Art School Mastermind. It is the only mastermind of its kind, a high-level mastermind that combines cognitive psychology, the most cutting-edge creativity coaching, along with tools of the creative process. I speak the language of creatives and artists. I speak to the soul of creatives and artists. And I also have this very pragmatic, and again sort of like Olympic caliber coach bend to it, where I plan to win. And with this mastermind, I am planning to win. With the Art School I am planning to win.

So if you are somebody who is ready for that caliber of work, you will want to check out both of those options. If you want to be somebody who goes from dreaming to actually planning and not only seeing yourself on that gold medal stage, but walking across to it, and owning it, and knowing that that’s inevitable for you. You will want to be a part of this community.

As I often tell the Art Schoolers, once you’re in there’s no way out but up. You get to ride on each other’s coattails, we can draft from time to time, but the collective energy is up, and up, and up, it’s more and more powerful and empowered, and in the most healthy constructive way.

So in closing today I wanted to highlight one of many of Maggie’s amazing thoughts. And that was her statement about whatever you’re going to do, if you’re going to the Olympics, don’t go along just for the ride, plan to win. And whatever you’re going to do, don’t go along just for the ride, make it awesome. So this is not a burden, folks, this is not to say make it perfect, or to put pressure on you. But let yourself be lit up with possibility, become on fire once again with hunger, and a desire, and a joy for life, let yourself have that, whatever you’re going to do, make it awesome.

And on that note, have an awesome, beautiful week, everyone. And I look forward to talking with you next time.